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Open Forum on Devil Fruits

+6
MickeyKeyz
[Username]
Nymeros
Adrian
Aerys
Zalton
10 posters

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15Open Forum on Devil Fruits - Page 2 Empty Re: Open Forum on Devil Fruits Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:14 am

Argent

Argent

I thought this would be the best place to bring up the discussion I want to have.

Currently we have 4 categories of DF those being Logia, paramecia, Zoan, and Z-class.  Z-class being under the branch of Zoan it currently includes Ancient, Mythical, and god like entities.  I propose that they are treated separately and that a limit on the number of users be imposed instead of waiting for an event.
I have been waiting almost since the site opened for such an event. (I got here a little after closing period for free grab. None of those people who had it are around.)

First I want to mention that each of the three under Z-class are significantly different in terms of perceived power. What extinct animal could challenge a god entity?  Ancient zoans have just as many weaknesses as the do strengths.  They may be big or stronger but one that same ancient zoan could also be slower with short arms.

Mythical Zoans (MZ) everything from a three headed dog, horse with a horn, all the way to a golden giant using shock waves.  Not every mythical zoan is all that powerful, inherently. The strongest MZs can be fought with same amount of challenge as logias or top paramecia

I don't like the idea of god zoans but I won't speak against them.  I'll just say the one or two I did see could easily take on any mythical animal I know of.

16Open Forum on Devil Fruits - Page 2 Empty Re: Open Forum on Devil Fruits Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:00 am

♥Siren

♥Siren

Tier 1 is Tier 1,   Tier 3 is Tier 3.    Whatever type of devil fruit you have will never and should never change that.    Different Devil Fruits would all always have their own strengths and weaknesses and have the same confines within their tier as do all others.

In the Anime,  eating any devil fruit was automatically a significant boost in "tier".  But this is not the anime.  This is not the manga.  This is an RP site with it's checks and balances.

Even if it was a "Deity" Devil-Fruit,  you'd still only be whatever tier you are.   Even if a "Demeter" deity devil fruit would give you a wider range of applications than a plant-plant logia,   the plant-plant is obviously far more specialized in what they do and the Demeter would be spread thin,  neither would the demeter have the benefit of incorporeality. 

Opening up Mythical fruits would only allow far more creativity.  Who cares if they become the most popular?  Isn't it a good thing if people are drawn to the ability to play whatever character archetype they wished?   Mythical could be so popular because it means there are many more ways you can get a certain power you want.  Flame-Flame fruit taken?  Try a Firefox fruit,  or a Fire Giant fruit.  Or a Phoenix as seen in the anime.

Regardless of function and theme,  they'll always remain within their tier and only allow more wiggle room for people to achieve their desired themes and abilities.  The problem with devil fruits is that there's a limit on how many people can have what sort of abilities due to devil fruit limitations, which could suffocate a site and deter new players. 


At the very least it's as Argent says,  "Mythical" is extremely diverse.  There are far far more mythical creatures than there are real world creatures you could viably make use of ranging from simple pixies and little gremlins all the way up the food chain to dragons and deities. 

Though Deities probably should NOT be considered a Zoan fruit,  as they aren't creatures or bests but humanoids.   A separate fruit could be done for them which IS limited,  but also with some obvious perks for having one otherwise as said they're still just another tier 1.

17Open Forum on Devil Fruits - Page 2 Empty Re: Open Forum on Devil Fruits Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:26 pm

Symon D Shackles

Symon D Shackles

"God" Fruits would be Mythical Zoan-- Or at least thats the way I see it.. Its like having the "Angel" Fruit or the Buddha Statue fruit.

18Open Forum on Devil Fruits - Page 2 Empty Re: Open Forum on Devil Fruits Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:57 am

Argent

Argent

@Symon I see that and would agree that "technically" it would be. Do you by chance watch and or read fairy tail? They have dragon slayers and they have god/demon slayers. I only separate deity fruits because they would likely dwarf their logia and other mythical counter parts.

For example an ice logia would only control ice they are connected to. An ice deity would psychically control all ice in their range

Off topic Beta beta (Trebol sticky fruit) looks like it is a paramecia and based of paper mache and glue after all, Not Mucus! My faith in what logias are suppose to be has been restored! For now at least but probably one more week for the final word.

19Open Forum on Devil Fruits - Page 2 Empty Re: Open Forum on Devil Fruits Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:20 am

[Username]

[Username]


To address everything one by one, I will start with Argent.

Z-Class fruits are limited to events for reasons including retaining their rarity--which inherently stays true to the lore of One Piece being that Z-Class fruits are the very rarest in the world--as well as limiting who possesses them. Why should they be limited to events as opposed to numbers? An event will allow an equal chance for players (not taking into account varying tiers) to attain a Z-Class fruit, by default allowing only the more skilled roleplayers to take ahold of these rare fruits. Skilled RPers using Z-Class fruits as opposed to unskilled RPers is preferred particularly due to the stigma of Skill-->Responsibility. While this is not always the case, it is the standard. A skilled RPer is typically someone with more experience with roleplaying and hopefully a better understanding of what to be cautious with.

Z-Class fruits are paid special attention to--especially in terms of being cautious with it--due to their versatility. Z-Class fruits, mainly Mythical Zoans, God Fruits, etc., are fruits that allow for multiple blatant abilities in one fruit as opposed to the more common Devil Fruits, which only have one ability but multiple applications. The stressed limitation on Z-Class fruits is primarily for that exact reason. Think of it in similar fashion to white-listed fruits. While they don't have to be overpowered, the difficulty in balancing them out causes them to be restricted under most circumstances. That in mind, Z-Class fruits are in fact freer than other white-listed fruits as attaining them is far more indiscriminate.

In terms of Ancient Zoans, I have to agree. There potential power is no where on the same scale as the other Z-Classes; however, restricting Ancient Zoans to Z-Class continue to follow the stigma of Z-Class rarity. Again, a part of Z-Class fruits having the restriction of being won through events is to retain their rarity, as is in OP lore. I do think there could be better ways to restrict Z-Class fruits considering you are very much right in that events are so rare. For that, it's appreciated that our members continue to post their comments and thoughts on the matter for sake of future improvement.

I can understand some animosity towards God-Class Fruits, but that animosity is likely exactly the same as that which others hold for white-listed fruits. For example, the Ope Ope no Mi. God-Class Fruits can potentially be super overpowered, just as the other banned/white-listed fruits; and for a very good reason. Under the usual circumstances, they are overpowered. Which is another reason Z-Classes are limited. The people who win Z-Classes are assumed to be able to handle balancing out such a fruit. After all, there's no trouble in using a powerful fruit so long as they're appropriately nerfed, right?

__

Siren: you are very right. Devil Fruits do not affect your tier. They only establish what kind of skills your character will have. Unfortunately, the applications of those skills can often have effects that go far beyond their intended limits depending on the Fruit in question. Granted, that's not always the case and they can always be balanced, but that is very much the point. Fruits like those white-listed are expected to be balanced by those apping them, and if successful they will be allowed to use the fruit. Z-Class fruits have added restrictions for the reasons aforementioned.

In terms of Mythical Fruit being open, aside from needing some special attention when being apped, in OP lore they are rare as is. Yes, we are an AU OP site that deviates from the manga/anime to some degree, but not wholly. We still stick to many pieces of lore for the sake of retaining this site as an Alternate Universe to One Piece. Too much deviation will ultimately classify this site as an "Original RP with similarities to One Piece". Granted I am exaggerating, but the point still stands.

On another note, limiting the existence of fruits like Myth-Zoan on the board also allows for the staff to continue keeping a close eye on these white-listed fruits when in use on the board. A part of making sure they are appropriately powered is continuing to monitor them even after their approval. An overwhelming amount being put out will ultimately overwhelm the staff.

Logia fruit have a limitation on them as well. Each player can only have one Logia, whether it be one of their characters, an equipment of theirs or even a pet(TBD) or NPC. This is to force a diversity of fruits around the board while still sticking to the levels of rarity of Fruits on the board. With enough desire for change from the members, that could potentially be changed. But, once again going back to my reply to Argent; Mythological Zoan potentially allow for multiple abilities in one fruit. The Phoenix Fruit is a bird-zoan as is, on top of which allows for fire-manipulation and potentially other abilities yet to be revealed. The allowance for multiple abilities in one skill-set is a high factor in Z-Class's overall limitation.

Just a small comment that's not entirely relevant; yes, Mythological creatures are very diverse, but no, they do not outnumber the amount of actually existing creatures in the world today. Easy reference is the estimated thousands of new species found or even born every month.

__

Symon: Diety fruits are generally classes as Myth-Zoan mainly because that's literally what they are. Myth-Zoan embodies the existence of a mythological creature into the consumer. Setting aside being "Politically Correct" and sensitive to the different religions, that's what Dieties--in a One Piece sense--are: Mythological creatures. The only difference is their assumed level of power.


20Open Forum on Devil Fruits - Page 2 Empty Re: Open Forum on Devil Fruits Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:55 am

♥Siren

♥Siren

[Username] wrote:
Just a small comment that's not entirely relevant; yes, Mythological creatures are very diverse, but no, they do not outnumber the amount of actually existing creatures in the world today. Easy reference is the estimated thousands of new species found or even born every month.

My comment was ""Mythical" is extremely diverse.  There are far far more mythical creatures than there are real world creatures you could viably make use of ranging from simple pixies and little gremlins all the way up the food chain to dragons and deities. "

-Viable- and -diverse-.

There is only so much you can do with animals.  I'm well aware of how many there are,  and I could indeed make many interesting enough zoans out of a number of species.  But out of those thousands of new species,  just how many are viable for the use in such a way?  Few in comparison and ultimately much less interesting in general or at least by default.


Preserving rarity and value is a little silly when the site is quite dead and in need of an activity boost.  Players themselves are a rarity,  and I don't just mean us but player-characters in relation to the world.  

Sure perhaps twelve players would have a mythical zoan,   but compared to how many people actually inhabit the world?  It is still a rarity.  The ingame universe is also far more expansive and encompassing than the cannon covers,  as we have access to the whole of the world to play in than what is witnessed through watching or reading the cannon.


I'm not suggesting deities be unlocked,  but mythicals up to a certain level beyond which they become more deity than simple myth.   The simpler creatures of folklore rather than the things worshiped by mankind.

Edit:
And I say all this not even wanting a mythical devil fruit, not any time soon at least. I have no intentions of acquiring a devil fruit at all or making a second character any time soon.

21Open Forum on Devil Fruits - Page 2 Empty Re: Open Forum on Devil Fruits Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:23 pm

Argent

Argent

Side notes the phoenix in one piece did not manipulate fire other than to heal, we don't even know that it hot.  In a culture and or era there would be less mythical animals than real ones.  But who knows how many actually there are.  However it would make more since that there are more real zoans than mythical ones in OP.

Edit no ^ doesn't counter my next point. It was just saying that there wouldnt be a devil fruit for each cultures created creature no

I don't feel that rarity should be a focus, at this time.  If there was actually a set number that allows you all the control that you spoke about. (Not overwhelm staff making sure the fruits aren't abused....) You mentioned peoples rping skills well we do have some fruits already that require rp samples that could be a demonstration.  There are also people who don't like taking part in events because they take so long with people posting and it just be a very overwhelming experience.

If we had an event by now where a mythical fruit was the prize I would have been less likely have this convo

22Open Forum on Devil Fruits - Page 2 Empty Re: Open Forum on Devil Fruits Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:16 pm

[Username]

[Username]


As stated in the other discussion, for the time being these suggestions will not be implemented. Expect some changes in the near future with all these posts taken into account, however. With that out of the way, I'm obliged to notify you all that Z-Class zoans as per our Admin's words are strictly attainable only through events. Please do keep on adding to this thread so that by the time we do use all your opinions, they can be settled in one fells swoop as opposed to progressive additions over time.

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